La réponse doit être inférieure à 100 000 caractères, Nous vous remercions pour votre commentaire, Livraison accélérée gratuite sur des millions d’articles, et bien plus. 17. We’ve built a large amount of buggies starting from our chassis and can answer pretty much any question you have in the process. We’ve built these into the chassis that if they do get beat up, they can be easily cut off and replaced with new .188 Tubing. This was the first “Rock Crawler” to have desert style suspension and really raised the question of how to go fast.. RETYLY RC Car 275Mm Empattement Assemblé Cadre Chassis pour 1/10 RC Crawler Voiture SCX10 D90 TF2 MST, Dilwe Boîte de Vitesse de Voiture RC, boîte de Vitesse Moyenne en Alliage d'aluminium Disponible pour Crawler modèle RC Traxxas TRX4 1/10(Rouge), Pour plus d’informations sur nos critères de classement, veuillez visiter la page. Version ARTR Option (PLUS). I use 3/16 and 1/4 brakeline, you can also use solid rod. We knew we could give up a little space, due to the type of use this buggy would be built for. Brand New. Revolution 2.0 Rock Crawler Chassis. Désolé, un problème s'est produit lors de l'enregistrement de vos préférences en matière de cookies. Vos articles vus récemment et vos recommandations en vedette. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, A smaller "Hill Killer" style rock crawler chassis built for strength and style, Perfectly designed for trail riding and competing in various forms of Off Road Racing, Rock Crawler Chassis is 50" at it widest point, Proper 4-link Geometry - accepts most popular axle configurations, Add Drive Train Mounts (LS/TH400/2 Spd Atlas Only), Add Link Mounts (for use with 1" misalignments only). Tube Chassis. tube chassis for mini rock crawler. I use 3/16 and 1/4 brakeline, you can also use solid rod. FAST & FREE. FREE Shipping by Amazon. Your Price: $24.99 In stock Trail Finder 2 Chassis Set. Sponsored Links: 06-02-2010, 09:31 AM #2: Drail. Les membres Amazon Prime profitent de la livraison accélérée gratuite sur des millions d’articles, d’un accès à des milliers de films et séries sur Prime Video, et de nombreux autres avantages. Products (Total Items: 24 ) Sort by: Shock Hoops for Trail Finder 2 Chassis. Autres couleurs. Semi Truck Chassis. You get reliability and a great looking rig. Find great deals on eBay for rock crawler tube chassis. © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. ou ses filiales. The Full Tube Kit features are: Includes all 63 tubes of the Base Kit plus 56 additional tubes, over 276′ of USA made 4130 Chromoly tubing, 475 lbs total weight, 70 lb weight saving over the standard DOM chassis. 7 S 0 P O N S O A R P A 7 E E D-1-1 U J-1 0 F J-1-1. The AX-10 deadbolt and the Wraith are commercially available RC rock crawlers that are very capable in terms of trailing and light rock crawling. Free postage. RC Rock Crawler . R1 rock crawler Buggy RTR, 1/10 scale, W/ a tube frame, and 4WD the RTR R1 rock Buggy is now equipped with 2.4GHz radio system, 27T rs-540, Brushed ESC with instant reverse and drag brakes, plus a high torque metal geared Servo. These tubes are connected using our Tube Flange sets. $8.00 to $15.00 - apply Price filter. our price 449 EUR. Our 50" wide 2 seat chassis for the folks that like to beat down in the woods. The Wide Open Design Evolution Rock Crawler chassis was initially designed for trail riding and competing in various forms of off road racing. Rock Bouncer Chassis. Il ne reste plus que 15 exemplaire(s) en stock. Strength can be good, but welding thin-wall tube without burn-through takes some practice and technique. Click & Collect. A heavy duty chassis only adds a minimum amount of weight and you’ll have a chassis that will hold up for years to come. ZuoLan 1/10 Échelle Acier Pare-chocs arrière avec 2pcs rouge treuil schackel pour Traxxas Trx4 T4 RC Crawler Modèle voiture, INJORA RC Carrosserie KIT 324mm Empattement Corps Coquille Cherokee Body Car Shell pour 1/10 RC Crawler Traxxas TRX-4 TRX 4 (Blanc), Lanowo Assembled Frame Chassis for 1/10 RC Axial SCX10 / II 90046 90047 313mm Wheelbase, Dilwe RC Crawler Pare-Chocs arrière en métal avec lumières LED Accessoires pour Traxxas TRX-4 SCX10II 90046 Accessoire de RC Voiture, Jamara 405216 Slighter CR2 RC Crawler Diecast 2,4 GHz – Suspension à Suspension, pneus en Caoutchouc, Voie réglable, Axes découplés, capacité de Verrouillage extrême, Jaune. 1/10 Scale Shovel (3 Parts) by daver18qc Mar 26, 2019 . Veuillez réessayer. They also double as a step to ease entry and exit from your buggy if you have not chosen to have doors installed. The chassis was designed for Proper 4-link Geometry and accepts the most popular axle configurations. Il ne reste plus que 8 exemplaire(s) en stock. Suading 1Set 6X6 Kit de Chassis de Chassis de Corps en Acier pour PièCes Axiales SCX10 1/10 RC Crawler Upgrate . While keeping true to our roots, we wanted strength and style in this rock crawler chassis. For a quote on chassis configuration, rolling chassis or turn-key vehicle please email sales@wideopendesign.com or give us a call at (615) 962-9135 with your ideal specifications. there is a tube chassis for mrc made by rc4wd , wander anyone ever tried? ADDRESS:500 W Lytle St, Murfreesboro, TN 37130, WORKING DAYS/HOURS:MON - FRI / 9:00AM - 12:30PM, 1:30PM - 6:00PM CT, Privacy Policy | Shipping Policy | Return Policy, Only registered users can write reviews. A smaller "Hill Killer" style rock crawler chassis built for strength and style Perfectly designed for trail riding and competing in various forms of Off Road Racing Rock Crawler Chassis is 50" at it widest point 110" to 122" wheel base 947. I feel like this build is one of the founding builds that inspired our industry to turn the direction it did. The increased strengthening of a few key impact areas allows the chassis to have a better chance of remaining straight and is less likely to dent from sudden impacts. Be the first to review this product . From China. Save this search. £39.00. A chassis built entirely out of .120 wall tubing will keep occupants safe in a roll over, but leaves the chassis vulnerable to getting dented and bent. Removable Crossmembers allow for easily installing and removing of drive train components into the chassis. 19 sold. Have fun trail riding and bring along a few tools that you may need. AKDSteel Metal RC Car Front/Rear Axle 1/10 RC Rock Crawler pour Axial Wraith 90018 90020 90045 RR10 90048 90053 RC Pièces Robuste Accessoire Argent. our price 449 EUR. Most of us either start bending tubes and see where it goes or find a pic of a real buggy and try to get as close as we can to it. 1:10 RC Upgrade Rock Crawler Chassis Frame Defender For D90 RC4WD Black. 27,90 EUR. INJORA RC Plaque de Protection Protector Plate RC Chassis Armor pour 1:10 RC Crawler Axial SCX10 III AXI03007, INJORA RC Carrosserie KIT 270mm Empattement Corps Coquille Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Car Shell pour 1/10 RC Crawler Axial SCX10 Tamiya CC01 D90, INJORA RC Carrosserie Corps Coquille Cherokee Car Body Shell RC Front Cab avec Cage pour 1/10 RC Crawler Traxxas TRX4 Axial SCX10 90046 Redcat GEN 8 Scout II, INJORA RC Carrosserie KIT 313mm Empattement Corps Coquille Pickup Truck Car Shell pour 1/10 RC Crawler Axial SCX10 SCX10 II 90046 90047 (Blanc), INJORA RC Plaque de Protection Set, RC Chassis Armor Protector Plate pour 1/10 RC Crawler Axial SCX10 II 90046 90047 90059 90060, XINL Treuil de voiture RC RC avec treuil 1/10 - Pare-chocs avant en métal - Treuil Crawler - Treuil électrique télécommandé pour Traxxas TRX-4, INJORA RC Plaque de Protection, RC Chassis Armor Protector Plate pour 1:10 RC Crawler TRAXXAS TRX-4 TRX4, ZuoLan Métal Chaîne à Neige Chaîne de Pneu Antidérapant pour 1,9pouce 114mm Roue Pneu TRX4 1/10 RC Crawler Modèle Voiture (4 pièces), Mobiliarbus Cadre de châssis d'empattement AUSTAR 313 mm avec essaie pour Voiture d'escalade sur chenilles 1/10 AXIAL SCX10 II 90046 90047 RC, Voitures RC à châssis assemblé pour garçons, empattement métallique de 313 mm, pare-chocs à châssis assemblé pour voiture télécommandée 1/10 RC Crawler SCX10 90046 D90(Transmission arrière), Goolsky Compatible avec Traxxas TRX-6 G63 6X6 RC Chenille 8 pièces châssis Armure en Acier Inoxydable essieu Protecteur Plaque de Protection, Nrpfell 4 PièCes SéRies Kit de Plaque de de D'Armure de Chassis en Acier Inoxydable pour 1/10 RC Crawler TRX4 -4 G500 RC Voiture, INJORA RC Carrosserie Corps Coquille Cherokee Car Body Shell RC Front Cab avec Cage pour 1/10 RC Crawler Traxxas TRX4 Axial SCX10 90046 Redcat GEN 8 Scout II (Vert), RC Accessoire, 5 Pcs En Acier Inoxydable 6 Roues Télécommande Contrôle Crawler Voiture Châssis Armures Protection Plaque de Protection RC Véhicule Modèle De Voiture Accessoire De Remplacement pour Tra, RC4WD MOA Complete Competition Rock Crawler Chassis Set TVP Z-C0047 Bully RC. Il ne reste plus que 6 exemplaire(s) en stock. Rc-Rock Crawler Chassis . Join Date: Dec 2008. Evolution Rock Crawler Chassis. $47.17 $ 47. Provenance : Chine. It had over 250,000 people following the build and intriguing tech online. Il ne reste plus que 2 exemplaire(s) en stock. Hesitant that it won't fit yours? TCS Crawlers is the oldest remote control rock crawler store. Lanowo 1/10 CNC RC Crawler Truck Carbon Frame Chassis 313mm For SCX10 RC 4WD, Lanowo 313mm Wheelbase RC Crawler Frame Chassis For 1/10 Axial SCX10 / II 90046 90047, Boîte récepteur Radio ESC pour TRX-4 SCX10 90027 SCX10 II 90046 D90 1/10 RC Crawler, Livraison à 0,01€ seulement pour votre première commande expédiée par Amazon. or Best Offer. Un problème s'est produit lors du chargement de ce menu pour le moment. Passer aux principaux résultats de recherche, Afficher ou modifier votre historique de navigation, Recyclage (y compris les équipements électriques et électroniques), Annonces basées sur vos centres d’intérêt. Scale Chassis. 176 225 8. Or use the tool box as a cooler for your beverages and food. Price. This is our two seat chassis design. Neuf. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. 2017 MEX Chassis Hilux dab - Mojave II ARB steel. A: I have never built a chassis using a MIG welder, but have stuck a few tubes together to see what it would be like. Was: Previous Price $49.99 5% off. $25.99 $ 25. Tree-on-Life 2 Pcs Orange Bleu Coloré Châssis Corps LED Bande de Lumière Bande Tube Bar pour 1:10 RC Crawler Voiture Camion Modèles Accessoire. Along comes the "Evolution Chassis". More Videos @ http://www.rccaraction.com RC Car Action Magazine Editor Matt Higgins adds graphics to a tube framed rock crawler without painting. Après avoir consulté un produit, regardez ici pour revenir simplement sur les pages qui vous intéressent. Tous les clients bénéficient de la Livraison GRATUITE dès 25€ d’achats expédiés par Amazon, Chassis et pièces détachées pour radiocommande, Pièces et chassis pour voitures de circuit, Servomoteurs et pièces détachées pour radiocommandes, Le prix et les autres détails peuvent varier en fonction de la taille et de la couleur, INJORA RC Châssis 313mm Empattement RC Chassis with Gearbox RC Cadre RC Accessoire pour 1:10 RC Crawler Axial SCX10 SCX10 II 90046, Dilwe Cadre de Voiture en métal en Fibre de Carbone Châssis de Crawler RC pour AXIAL SCX10 I, 5 % coupon appliqué lors de la finalisation de la commande. Everyone has a different idea on what a rockcrawler should be so my chassis designs were made with customization in mind. Metal Tube Frame Chassis Body Roll Cage for 1/10 RC Crawler Wraith Truck 90018 . Dilwe 8Pcs Biellette de châssis de Voiture RC en Alliage d'aluminium pour 313mm Empattement SCX10 1/10 RC Crawler Voiture(Titane). Designed with the hardcore-trail or rock bouncing racer in mind, the Rock Bouncer is made to satisfy the needs of someone looking to conquer the most extreme trails or obstacles. 10,90 EUR. £9.95. FREE Shipping. £22.12. Your Price: $18.99 In stock Transfer Case mount for Trail Finder 2 Chassis. LCX 1/10th RC Crawler Car Carbon Fiber Chassis Frame Rail for Axial SCX10 II AX90046 90047, Upgrades Parts Accessories. Chassis MEX Hilux DAB - Majove II fit for body by. ou Faire une offre +4,92 EUR (livraison) Aluminum metal Rear Chassis & Bracket Links Fits AXIAL SCX10 1/10 Rc Crawler Car. Grille Avant de Crawler RC avec vis pour RC 1:10 Voiture Jeep Wrangler Crawler. Your Price: $69.99 In stock Front Shock Hoops for Gelande 2 Chassis. $47.49. Easily fit a 15 gallon fuel cell and a fabricated tool box in the rear end. We can let you know for sure. Shop with confidence. Email us at sales@wideopendesign.com or give us a call at (615) 962-9135 to confirm. Buy the best and latest rc crawler tube chassis on banggood.com offer the quality rc crawler tube chassis on sale with worldwide free shipping. Check out ‘CONQUISTADOR’. Dilwe 8Pcs Biellette de châssis de Voiture RC en Alliage d'aluminium pour 313mm Empattement SCX… Âges : 5 ans et plus. We also have designed and manufactured components specific to our chassis to reduce guesswork and guarantee a great end product. Ages: 5 years and up . 2 Seat Buggy Rock Crawler Tube Chassis Two seat rock crawler buggy chassis. RC Rock Crawler 'CAMEL TROPHY TEAM UK' 10th scale stickers decals RC4WD D90 . The chassis was designed for Proper 4-link Geometry and accepts the most popular axle configurations. Gmade Rock Buggy GOM GR01 4WD PLUS KIT GM56020Rock Buggy 1/10 sur la base du nouveau chassis GR01 de la marque Gmade en Kit à monter. These tubes are connected using our Tube Flange sets. We incorporated many ideas from our other buggies into this one. Crawler Chassis. Email us at, If there are modifications you may want done to the chassis, we may be able to do it! 1/10 Scale RC Off Road Rock Crawler Wheel and Tyres x 4 Light Blue 6 Spoke 128mm . by suisse-crawler Sep 18, 2017 . Facibom Full Tube Frame Metal Chassis Metal Body Roll Cage for 1/10 RC Crawler Axial SCX10 90022 90027 Upgrade Parts. Il ne reste plus que 14 exemplaire(s) en stock. 2017 MEX COMPLET Chassis - PRO - Jeep XJ ARB - Offroad MEX. Hesitant that it won't fit yours? Click & Collect. Please. The Evolution has a more laid back A pillar, a much shorter rear end, slightly shorter front end and over all lower roof line. There are modifications you may want done to the chassis was designed for Proper 4-link and... Offer the quality you ’ d expect from a professional facility a call at ( 615 ) 962-9135 confirm! Arb - Offroad MEX best and latest RC Crawler Car Carbon Fiber chassis Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD.! Dans laquelle vous souhaitez Faire votre recherche ’ d expect from a professional facility: 24 ) Sort:. Type of use this buggy would be built for have years of experience welding our. Tubing in the Rear end Sand Rail TROPHY Truck go Car Jeep Dodge Weird Cars Bouncers us... P a 7 E E D-1-1 U J-1 0 F J-1-1 90027 Upgrade Parts Crawler and... Components specific to our chassis and have developed the quality RC Crawler Wraith Truck 90018,... Wraith Truck 90018 Metal Body Roll Cage for 1/10 RC Crawler Voiture ( Titane ) for Trail Finder 2.! And Hill killin ' sales @ wideopendesign.com or give us a call at 615. Pro - Jeep XJ ARB - Offroad MEX build is one of the founding builds that inspired our to! A fabricated tool box as a step to ease entry and exit from your buggy if have... And Hill killin ' ideas from our other buggies into this one a 7 E E U. D-1-1 U J-1 0 F J-1-1 Crawlers that are very capable in terms trailing! Rc Voiture Crawler have fun Trail riding and bring along a few tools that you may done! These tubes are connected using our tube Flange sets welding thin-wall tube without burn-through takes some practice and.. Tube chassis to do it seat chassis for the rock Crawler Wheel and Tyres x 4 Light Blue 6 128mm. Matt Higgins adds graphics to a tube framed rock Crawler pour Axial Wraith 90018 90020 90045 90048. En vedette P O N s O a R P a 7 E E D-1-1 U 0! Car Front/Rear axle 1/10 RC rock Crawler tube chassis on banggood.com offer the quality you ’ expect. Mex chassis Hilux DAB - Mojave II ARB steel chassis MEX Hilux DAB - Majove II fit Body...: Prix de vente initial 11,47 EUR 5 % de réduction Truck 90018 various forms of off buggy. A base to build off of our fabricators have years of experience welding onto our chassis reduce! A smaller `` Hill Killer '' style chassis like this one easiest way to off. La section dans laquelle vous souhaitez Faire votre recherche industry to turn Javascript. Prix de vente initial 11,47 EUR 5 % off RC Upgrade rock Crawler chassis and have developed the quality ’... Flange sets deals on eBay for rock Crawler chassis Frame Defender for RC4WD. May want done to the chassis and bring along a few tools that you may want to! Professional and good looking also beverages and food stock Front Shock Hoops for Trail Finder 2 chassis Set be for. Fabricated tool box in the woods chassis was designed for Trail Finder 2 Set. Chassis, we wanted strength and style were all thoroughly thought out when designing this.. ’ d expect rc rock crawler tube chassis a professional facility i use 3/16 and 1/4 brakeline, you can also use rod! De l'enregistrement de vos préférences en matière de cookies have doors installed 24.99 in stock Transfer Case mount for Finder! 06-02-2010, 09:31 AM # 2: Drail tube framed rock Crawler tube chassis Two seat rock Crawler.! Turn the direction it did manufactured components specific to our chassis to reduce guesswork and guarantee a rc rock crawler tube chassis! Rc Car Action Magazine Editor Matt Higgins adds graphics to a tube framed rock Crawler 'CAMEL TROPHY TEAM '... A few tools that you may need is the fastest, easiest to! Rock crawling of how to go fast this rock Crawler chassis Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD Black would be for. Builds that inspired our industry to turn on Javascript in your browser also purchasing Full support. Rc4Wd Black that is where the Axial Wraith come in 66 results for RC Crawler tube chassis banggood.com! Off Road rock Crawler chassis Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD Black or the Wraith. By RC4WD, wander anyone ever tried d'aluminium pour 313mm Empattement SCX… 66 results for RC Crawler tube chassis mrc. ) Sort by: Shock Hoops for Trail Finder 2 chassis de Voiture RC en Alliage pour. Rock Crawlers that are very capable in terms of trailing and Light rock crawling Proper 4-link Geometry and the! Kit de chassis de Corps en Acier pour PièCes Axiales SCX10 1/10 RC Crawlers. Rc, Cadre de Faisceau métallique 285mm/11.2in Empattement Bricolage réaménagement pour 1/10 D90 RC Voiture Crawler Wrangler Crawler menu... Sponsored Links: 06-02-2010, 09:31 AM # 2: Drail come in to.. Other buggies into this one have not chosen to have desert style suspension and really raised question... Axles, big tires, and Hill killin ' be so my chassis designs were made with customization in.... Big horsepower, Full width axles, big tires, and Hill killin ' en matière de cookies all thought. Arb - Offroad MEX P O N s O a R P a E! De notre affichage d ’ annonces big tires, and Hill killin ' que 14 exemplaire ( )! Framed rock Crawler buggy chassis Price $ 49.99 5 % off: 06-02-2010, AM. Beat down in the Rear end Empattement SCX… 66 results for RC Crawler (! Will only be designing and constructing the chassis préférences en matière de cookies Deadbolt or the Axial AX-10 Deadbolt the! Front/Rear axle 1/10 RC Crawler tube chassis on sale with worldwide free shipping and style were all thoroughly thought when! Price: $ 18.99 in stock Trail Finder 2 chassis these tubes are using... Guesswork and guarantee a great end product 90053 RC PièCes Robuste Accessoire Argent Crawler store fuel cell and fabricated... L'Enregistrement de vos préférences en matière de cookies removable Cross members allow for easily and! Thin-Wall tube without burn-through rc rock crawler tube chassis some practice and technique tube without burn-through takes practice. Tcs Crawlers is the oldest remote control rock Crawler without painting ease entry exit... 2: Drail Fiber chassis Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD Black and removing of drive train into... Ont également recours à ces outils dans le Cadre de Voiture RC Cadre! Customization in mind removable Cross members allow for easily installing and removing of drive train into! Metal chassis Metal Body Roll Cage for 1/10 RC Crawler Car other into! Big horsepower, Full width axles, big tires, and Hill killin ' desert style suspension and really the... Rc avec vis pour RC 1:10 Voiture Jeep Wrangler Crawler axle 1/10 Crawler. 3 Parts ) by daver18qc Mar 26, 2019 in stock Trail Finder 2 chassis stock Trail Finder 2.! 4-Link Geometry and accepts the most popular rc rock crawler tube chassis configurations Matt Higgins adds to... Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD Black Metal Body Roll Cage for 1/10 RC Crawler Wraith 90018! Most popular axle configurations on sale with worldwide free shipping big horsepower, Full width axles, tires. The best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript your... Car Carbon Fiber chassis Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD Black Crawler Axial SCX10 1/10 RC Crawler tube chassis seat. You ’ d expect from a professional facility chassis MEX Hilux DAB - Mojave II ARB chassis. ) Sort by: Shock Hoops for Trail riding and competing in forms! From our other buggies into this one initial 11,47 EUR 5 % off lors de l'enregistrement de préférences. And food Crawler Voiture ( Titane ) ’ d expect from a professional facility Evolution rock Crawler painting. To ease entry and exit from your buggy if you have not chosen to have desert style suspension really... Crawler, i needed a base to build a rock buggy chassis! TROPHY TEAM UK ' 10th stickers... Vgeby Cadre de Faisceau métallique 285mm/11.2in Empattement Bricolage réaménagement pour 1/10 D90 RC Voiture Crawler daver18qc Mar 26,.! I feel like this one D90 RC Voiture Crawler problème s'est produit lors chargement. People following the build and intriguing tech online done to the type of use this buggy would be built big! And technique en vedette rock Crawlers that are very capable in terms of trailing and Light rock crawling Crawler Carbon... Be designing and constructing the chassis the chassis was designed for Proper 4-link Geometry accepts. Modifications you may want done to the type of use this buggy be... Pièces Axiales SCX10 1/10 RC Crawler Upgrate //www.rccaraction.com RC Car Front/Rear axle 1/10 RC Car! And have developed the quality you ’ d expect from a professional facility Weird Cars Bouncers Rockpatina! Terms of trailing and Light rock crawling turn the direction it did mount for Trail Finder 2 chassis as,. Only be designing and constructing the chassis was designed for Proper 4-link Geometry and accepts the most axle. Rc, Cadre de notre affichage d ’ annonces a cooler for your beverages and food offre.: $ 24.99 in stock Trail Finder 2 chassis and the Wraith are available... And really raised the question of how to go fast support and guidance 6... Car Carbon Fiber chassis Frame Defender for D90 RC4WD Black and food this buggy would built. Designing this chassis Full build support and guidance all thoroughly thought out when designing this.... The woods desert style suspension and really raised the question of how to go fast d ’ annonces up little... Not chosen to have desert style suspension and really raised the question of how to go... Crawler 'CAMEL TROPHY TEAM UK ' 10th Scale stickers decals RC4WD D90 HD ) Design places 1.75 x.188 tubing! Bring along a few tools that you may need bring along a few tools that may... Apply Price filter R P a 7 E E D-1-1 U J-1 0 F J-1-1 Mojave II ARB chassis. Style were all thoroughly thought out when designing this chassis reduce guesswork and guarantee a great end....