It’s only when you try to be tricky and slip God into If there was no beginning then the past is infinite. It went something like this: If you were walking on a planet searching for life and you came across a geometrical pyramid, you may be able to explain how over years of tectonic plate shifting, and so on, that the planet has slowly created this pyramid. But then if you walked a little further and saw a piece of paper lying on the ground and it says “Hello Ravi How are you? Some say that the “Big Bang” was just one of a infinite number of explosions before it. I.e. Just to reiterate: the universe (all matter/energy) cannot have always existed (been eternal) because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. In set theory, (which is presumably the framework from which you derive the meaning of the word ‘set’) a set consists of objects. The materialists have no problem with it, because in their view, there is nothing outside of matter/energy. If anything existed then some form of universe existed, therefore, a changing universe has always existed up to … Darwin’s real message: have you missed it?). Recommend to friends. Read more quotes from Carl Sagan. Yet no system is 100% efficient, and if it wasn’t for our sun, the earth would have grown cold and dead long ago. We have supplied this link to an article on an external website in good faith. Was the universe created with a Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, or has it been expanding and contracting for eternity? of material stuff which God created, but not God Himself, who is non-material. In one of his notebooks, Darwin addresses himself as, “O, However, the universe is not eternal, nor can or ever would be in existence outside of the boundaries of a boundless God. The short of it is that when it comes to material reality, quantum mechanics tells us that the universe has either always existed (and will always exist) or that time itself isn't fundamental in which some quantum material just exists with time perception being a phenomenon of our consciousness. Numbers, which are utilized as abstract representations of objects in the material world. The universe has eternally existed, and has no beginning. That trend involves the sometimes subtle sin of substituting a good gift (the scientific enterprise) for the Giver of that Gift--God--as first in our affections. In the same way, in classical thermodynamics, a system plus its surroundings is the universe—seen or There has also been a revival of interest in the “tunneling proposal,” an alternative way that the universe might have arisen from nothing, conceived in the ’80s independently by the Russian-American cosmologists Alexander Vilenkin and Andrei Linde. They therefore would not And surely the fact that a large body of scientists now question materialistic theory is in itself an interesting fact, which I would have thought any inquisitive mind, ought to be informed about. A quick follow-up on my just-made feedback. Of course, you might argue that you are simply saying ‘for the sake of the argument’, that ‘if God exists’ He must be part of the set of all sets. perceive a difference between this and your definition; the two definitions would, in their perception, be synonymous. Ted G. from the UK wrote in response to Don Batten’s article Who created God? We can see distant galaxies racing away from each other, and the space around them is filled with cosmic radiation whose intensity and spread are consistent with that expected from the aftermath of the Big Bang. This means it contains EVERYTHING (and therefore every person) that exists.". Yet the Materialists continue to complain and protest about Creationism’s modest challenge, like an elephant panicking over the presence of a mouse. all sets’ is clearly inappropriate. The universe is always changing. So over an infinite amount of time all the usable energy would be used up. Please add your resources in our comment section. either definition, because it would be assumed by all sides that one is talking about the material world of objects. This explosive moment marked the beginning of the universe-- everything that exists was born from a single point they call the 'singularity.' Your subscription already exists. The reason why the universe has always existed is not known. It seems there had to be something happening 20 billion years ago, despite that being before the Big Bang. The topic is incredibly complex and wonderfully intricate. The time that has elapsed on a hypothetical clock which has existed since the Big Bang and is now here on Earth will depend on the motion of the clock. CMI may choose not to publish your comment depending on how well it fits the guidelines outlined above. Many atheists say that the Universe has always existed? Thus, the universe has not always existed because we still have usable energy. The singularity theorems produced by Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose and expanded upon by Arvind Borde, Alan H. Guth, and Alexander Vilenkin, show that an expanding universe (or multiverse) must have a beginning of matter, energy, space and time. Friends Who Liked This Quote. With little refinement the theory has withstood testing, experimentation and observatuon. The series lays a vital foundation for understanding both the world around us, and the Gospel itself. The Universe Has Always Existed As will be patently obvious to anyone who has read much of my blog, I am incredibly fascinated by the question of Time and the description of the universe’s history. Nothing more definitive can be said. The colloquial definition of "universe" that most grow up with is that the "universe" encompasses "everything". And could you please enlighten me more on this?! God - eternal, non material, creator & 2. So, here’s the question. The disagreement comes when we ask what made all the noise. It began with the big bang almost 14 billion years ago. (via explaintion of elementary fallacy) Therefore the universe has always existed. The correspondent’s particular thinking is a variation of a trend of thinking from Hobbes and Spinoza, down to the present. 2 shot, killed at Northern Calif. mall on Black Friday. Thus, someone defining the universe as the ‘set of all sets’ would normally have my agreement, as it would just be an alternative way of saying ‘all the bestimmter, wohlunterschiedener Objekte unserer Anschauung und unseres Denkens—welche Elemente der Menge genannt werden—zu einem Ganzen.” strengthening the materialist maxim of ‘no God’—which if true, would make your assumption invalid in the first place. What if Space has no beginning and end? Astronomy and Astrophysics Questions and Answers, The Genesis Academy: A 12-part teaching series on Genesis 1–11, The Bible declares: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The definition of a set is laid out by German mathematician Georg Cantor, who founded set theory, in his Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten The universe has always been here. I.e., you have tried to make use of a definition of set which normally assumes we are talking about the Share this quote: Like Quote. There’s a wealth of evidence that the Universe began in a Big Bang around 14 billion years ago. :-). There is only a certain amount of hydrogen in each star and after it’s gone every star and planet will grow cold. You can use the ash as fertilizer for a new tree, and you can use the heat to cook dinner. . The universe has always existed, hence, there is no point in time when it was created, either by a deity or by accident. Check your email! That aside: the universe could not have always existed because that idea is in direct opposition to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It goes somewhat like this: Ted G is trying to prove his case logically but his materialist worldview cannot account for laws of logic (universal, invariant, abstract entities). The idea of an ever existing universe is necessary to complete the theory of evolution. I mean, really, if you went to a casino in Vegas you wouldn’t put a dime on one chance out of infinity. A FREE downloadable study guide is available from creation.com/tga. The universe has always been here. In short, you can’t have It began with the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago when the Universe was tiny, hot, and dense. If this sort of 'chess' (or better perhaps 'ping pong' was all our ministry was about, it would not be very satisfying, I agree. Thank you Dr Wieland. (If you haven’t received your first email within a few minutes, try checking your spam folder.). (“A set is a gathering together into a whole of definite, distinct objects of our perception and of our thought—which are called But I think all scientists agree that this concept of “nothing” if a difficult one. Sign in. Near the shuttlecock’s rounded-off bottom, though, the correlations are less reliable; time ceases to exist and is replaced by pure space. try to slip something past the goalkeeper, hoping no one will notice. “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. . Merely "showing up" for the debate he loses! The answer is that there was “nothing” since the space itself was created after the bb. The question only fits inside the confines of time and in that the universe has always existed. Aquinas's argument from contingency allows for the possibility of a Universe that has no beginning in time. It has helped me clear my misunderstanding. The universe has always existed. [URL deleted as per feedback rules]. Consider your examples of human emotions and classical music styles; surely if one is debating a materialist, he/she would claim that these consist of descriptions of things or abstract representations of things which do in fact emanate from (and form a part of) the world of matter and energy. Evidence shows that it is in fact about 13.5 billion years old. You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer. Recommend to friends. Romans 1:18-22 might explain as to why this gentleman seems to be so confused. In General Relativity, the Big Bang is a spacetime singularity. You certainly covered the problems there. If Materialists are as secure in their beliefs as they claim to be, they should easily see off the Creationist counter view without resorting to any suppression, abuse or misrepresentation. Quantum science says you ALWAYS have existed and ALWAYS will exist ... Dr David Hamilton said all consciousness is and always has been in the universe … being a part of the material world (the God you don’t believe in, and who by definition is not a part of that material world anyway) that it becomes logically invalid. Or, if we say that God has always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?” ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos. So I … If it always existed then how did we arrive at the present? For the purposes of the mind within that closed system the universe has always existed. If the physical universe always existed, it simply is. Jolie becomes trending topic after dad's pro-Trump rant. There is a message in the universe: the information in DNA; the precise balance in a star of the gravity and the forces of the outward explosion; the balance of living thing on earth necessary to keep it habitable — so much order and precision. So we revert to the definition of the universe as follows (recognizing today that matter and energy are interchangeable): First, it matters not whether all of this is observable or not. However. It requires that something infinitely improbable will occur if it has an infinite amount of time to occur — which sounds more like a numbers game than science to me. GOD BLESS! For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.”. Many Scientists today have dogmatically imposed a "Religion of Materialism" on the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. Atheists agree that our universe was started by a “Big Bang.”. Read more quotes from Carl Sagan. (By the way, if there was noting, Atheists agree that our universe was started by a “Big Bang.”  The disagreement comes when we ask what made all the noise. sadly) would have agreed with me, since they don’t acknowledge the existence of anything other than mass/energy. mass-energy entities in existence’, i.e the same as the one I gave above. This is certainly how science’s founding fathers regarded the universe; the total amount 1 decade ago. The short of it is that when it comes to material reality, quantum mechanics tells us that the universe has either always existed (and will always exist) or that time itself isn't fundamental in which some quantum material just exists with time perception being a phenomenon of our consciousness. Let me put it another way. material (we would say created) world only, but then at the same time, you have assumed the existence of God as a discrete entity within set theory—all for the purpose of 8 Reasons the British Parliament Shouldn’t Kill People. The Bible gives us indication that the universe that creatio ex nihilo (God created the There is no way for a thing to happen before the first moment of Time, because things only happen within Time, and there is no Time which exists … Creation Ministries International (CMI) exists to support the effective proclamation of the Gospel by providing credible answers that affirm the reliability of the Bible, in particular its Genesis history. This may sound like the dumbest of questions, for we know our universe is all the matter and energy that inhabits space and time. In other words, even if the Universe has always existed, it still owes its existence to an uncaused cause, Aquinas further said: "... and this we understand to be God." There are many things that show evidence for the existence of God. To gamble that there is no God on the odds that there is one chance in infinity that there has been sufficient time for everything to come to this state by random events. The question of the eternity of the world was a concern for both ancient philosophers and the medieval theologians and philosophers of the 13th century. But we have a finite amount of usable energy. Asked by: Pete Sears, Australia. We can see distant galaxies racing away from each other, and the space around them is filled with cosmic radiation whose intensity and spread are consistent with that expected from the aftermath of the Big Bang. elements of the set.”), Assume a materialist were to discuss set theory with a Christian. The path back in time cannot be extended beyond 13.7 billion years or so. Or, if we say that God has always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?” ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos. Unfortunately, these peculiarities can very often lead to very common misconceptions. But many cosmologists now believe there are other “universes”, and perhaps our universe arose from one of them. Your definition in the way you seek to use it turns out to be totally circular, committing the logical fallacy known as begging the question, But because of theophobia, these apostates aren’t turning to religion either. (Thought itself, in that philosophy/worldview, is regarded as ultimately material in origin. I apologize for my testiness. Friends Who Liked This Quote. In If the universe did not always exist, then something changed In order to bring it about. No problem, I published my response before I read your followup. It is a form of argument from universal causation. Others say there was just the one, but our universe will spin on forever. Has the universe always existed? (mass/energy) realm. The whole group of universes, if there are indeed more than one, is commonly called the multiverse. ©2021 Creation Ministries International. CMI records your real name, email address, and country as a sign of good faith. I would like to pose a few questions to Ted G. Strange for an atheist to argue that "universe" is a good term for "all that exists", considering secular scientists have toyed around with so many ideas that say there could be other universes. Egyptian scientist Ahmed Farag Ali and Canadian scientist Saurya Das have recently calculated one possible, mathematically sound answer: that the cosmic effects we attribute to the Big Bang may actually represent the steady state of a permanent universe that had no beginning. Share this quote: Like Quote. (always has energy) 5. The universe must have had a beginning and such a beginning needs a sufficient cause that is non-material (in order to be self-existing/eternal). If so, couldn’t that take away the need for a creator rather than the Big Bang where “something” had to be there for it to happen 0 comments Thank you Dr. Carl for this article. For example, if you burn a log in the fire you get ash and heat. The Fool on the hill. If the universe always existed, then anything that has happened, is happening, or will happen within this closed eternal system has no meaning. they were referring to objects which were either, If that were not presupposed, there would be no common ground for discussion, since the materialist does not concede the existence of anything outside the material The catch – according to astrophysicist Brian Koberlein – is that, without the singularity, this model predicts that the universe had no beginning. New things are forming and unforming. However, if either of these options are true, I’m not sure they remove the need for God to have made the universe in the first place; because the order and information in the universe still cry out that there is a creator. Point they call the 'singularity. topic after dad 's pro-Trump rant a finite amount of usable would... Way, in that philosophy/worldview, is commonly called the multiverse is less forms. 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